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A question to native English speakers: sillage

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A question to native English speakers: sillage 11 years ago
We use the word sillage for the strength that a fragrance has when smelled not directly on skin, but some inches away from it.

If a perfume makes you literally stand in the middle of a big cloud of fume we talk about a strong sillage whereas a low sillage means it is only detectable if you sniff directly at the skin where it was applied.

I am not so content with this technical term since only perfume insiders will know it. I think, originally this technical term was used in nautics where it described the level of water displacement that a ship has.

In my German reviews I sometimes use the word "Projektion" instead, and I wonder if "projection" would also be understood in English. To project something onto something is actually what sillage does since it transports the fragrance from the skin to the environment.

So, native speakers, can we use the word projection instead of sillage? Would this be an acceptable alternative?
The first meaning of Sillage 11 years ago
I am not a native English speaker and only want to throw in a little side thought.

Projection seems to indicate the perfume emanating from the body to the enviroment, forming a circle of perfume molecules around the person.

Sillage seems to indicate a boat forging through the waters and in its wake leave the water disturbed in form of a trail.

translation.babylon.com/french/to-english/sill age/

Notice that Babylon translator gives the word "track" whereas I believe that "trail" is more apt.

So a woman/man passing through a room leaves a trail of perfume molecules that others perceive immediately and still after she/he has left.

Thus, "Projection" covers one meaning and "Trail" covers another.

Now I leave the floor to true English speakers to pick the meanings apart.

It seems to be "chic" in the perfume lovers world to use the French word 'sillage' and then the uninitiated perfume chasers ask, "What is that?"
11 years ago
Pipette has explained this perfectly! The Projection is how much the perfume radiates from the skin, and the sillage leaves a trail. I suppose, in reality, without projection, there can't be a perfumed trail, as the scent has not projected, or strong enough to leave a scented trail. So, it may be how the person explains his or her thoughts on a certain perfume. Another thought...Projection may be a short, strong burst of radiating scent, where as the Sillage is a much more lasting impression.
11 years ago
Personally, I would probably read projection as sillage when used in a review, but Pipette and Dalmajen's descriptions are correct.

In the perfume world, I think both words could be used interchangeably without researching the history. I suppose it might be a good idea to decide an either or for the forum just so everyone is on the same page so to speak.
11 years ago
Sillage to me is a wave of scent.
11 years ago
Since "sillage" is a French word meaning "wake" or "trail" ("silage" - one "L" - in English means something entirely different) and the word sillage has a specific meaning in perfumery, people just need to look up the word sillage, like any other term one hears for the first time.

After all, perfumery is packed with terms specific to perfumery, such as "aldehydes" and "base notes," "top notes," etc.,, not to mention all the French words: eau de, parfum, toilette. Every native English speaker at some point learns that "eau de toilette" doesn't actually refer to the water in the toilet, right? Smile

If you dumb down your language for the least experienced common denominator, you are depriving someone the opportunity to expand their linguistic horizons, no?
11 years ago
I think it depends on your audience. Over here on the International side most of the members have been in the hobby for a while so simplification of terminology isn't necessary. There may be more absolute beginners on the German side who'd appreciate the gesture, I have no way of knowing.
projection and sillage 11 years ago
I don't think the metaphor associated with the word "projection" does justice to the experience of someone else's perfume.
My opinion is that "sillage" is a better word because it's a better metaphor.

Others have already pointed out it is a french word and in English means wake.

I don't think of a wake as the volume of water displaced by a boat-- yes the water has been displaced but then it's rushing back in behind the boat. So a wake is that dynamic process with a series of waves emanating from the space the boat is moving out of.

Bodies as they move through the air cause a wake as well. The scent is carried on the wake of air.

Or one could use the metaphor of a cloud or a breeze, (although each of these imply a different atmospheric mechanism) but I think sillage is the most poetic.
Last edited by NSku on 27.01.2013, 22:30; edited 1 time in total
11 years ago
To me, it means wake, trail or even the swirl effect as you pass by.
11 years ago
Projection comes from Latin. The word is composed of the prefix pro, meaning forward, and jectus meaning thrown. Its combined meaning is thrown forward. Whereas sillage is simply the French word for wake, what usually trails behind a boat as it moves through water. One is forward and one is behind. Not the same meaning in my book.
11 years ago
That's right.
Projection is akin to radiation and can occur whilst the wearer stands still, whereas sillage implies movement.
11 years ago
Dulcemio:
If you dumb down your language for the least experienced common denominator, you are depriving someone the opportunity to expand their linguistic horizons, no?

Nicely said Dulcemio.
11 years ago
Dolby:
Dulcemio:
If you dumb down your language for the least experienced common denominator, you are depriving someone the opportunity to expand their linguistic horizons, no?

Nicely said Dulcemio.

+1
11 years ago
Dlane1953:
Joking aside, I think it's nothing to worry about. Sillage is the accepted term, and I bet 99% of readers understand without further explanation.

This is good reading for beginners especially but I think keeping it simple wont hurt as Diane explains.
11 years ago
Technically everyone here who distinguishes between the 2 words (sillage/projection) is right and I have no problem using sillage in English (with a French pronunciation).

But what about German or Dutch? In Dutch it feels weird to say 'sillage' so I say 'projectie' or 'spoor'(Spur).
What do Germans say?
11 years ago
DutchSniffer:
Technically everyone here who distinguishes between the 2 words (sillage/projection) is right and I have no problem using sillage in English (with a French pronunciation).

But what about German or Dutch? In Dutch it feels weird to say 'sillage' so I say 'projectie' or 'spoor'(Spur).
What do Germans say?
On the German Parfumo, 'Sillage' is very common. I sometimes use 'Projektion', but it is also common to speak about 'Abstrahlung' - emission.

I am quite sure that the use of the term "Abstrahlung" has been created on the German Parfumo. So, maybe in English we could also use 'scent emission' or 'the emission of the fragrance'.
11 years ago
Apicius:
DutchSniffer:
Technically everyone here who distinguishes between the 2 words (sillage/projection) is right and I have no problem using sillage in English (with a French pronunciation).

But what about German or Dutch? In Dutch it feels weird to say 'sillage' so I say 'projectie' or 'spoor'(Spur).
What do Germans say?
On the German Parfumo, 'Sillage' is very common. I sometimes use 'Projektion', but it is also common to speak about 'Abstrahlung' - emission.

I am quite sure that the use of the term "Abstrahlung" has been created on the German Parfumo. So, maybe in English we could also use 'scent emission' or 'the emission of the fragrance'.


@ Apicius - Does not the word "Abstrahlung" imply deflection of something that touched the body from the outside ?
Would the word "Ausstrahlung" be more accurate, as the perfume emanates from the skin to the immediate environment ?

Well, technically seen, the pray of perfume hits the body and the body deflects it - thus "Abstrahlung" ?

My intuition votes for the use of "Ausstrahlung".

*************
Perfume emits - comes out
Perfume emanates - comes out in waves
Perfume exudes - comes out in thickness

Oh, to be a poet - a rose by any other name ...
11 years ago
Pipette:
@ Apicius - Does not the word "Abstrahlung" imply deflection of something that touched the body from the outside ?
Would the word "Ausstrahlung" be more accurate, as the perfume emanates from the skin to the immediate environment ?

Well, technically seen, the pray of perfume hits the body and the body deflects it - thus "Abstrahlung" ?

My intuition votes for the use of "Ausstrahlung".

No, 'Abstrahlung' is nothing that comes from outside the body. Don't confuse it with 'Abstrahlen'. Originally, 'Abstrahlung' is used as a technical term. Leo.org gives the translations: emission, radiant emittance, radiant exitance, radiation. This word gives me the picture of invisible beams coming from a person's body caused by the perfume.

"Ausstrahlung" is also something different, it is less physical and rather means the aura or the charisma of a person, and translated to perfumes, it would apply to the character of a fragrance.
Off Topic - Writing about Perfumes 11 years ago
The difficulty of writing about perfumes adequately was discussed at the last Esxence Trade Show in Milan, and published in The Perfume Magazine.

See this link:

www.theperfumemagazine.com/MARCH2012/Esxence-T he-Scent-of-Excellence-2012-Translating-Perfum e-into-Words-Mark-David-Boberick.html
11 years ago
On the German Parfumo, 'Sillage' is very common. I sometimes use 'Projektion', but it is also common to speak about 'Abstrahlung' - emission.

I am quite sure that the use of the term "Abstrahlung" has been created on the German Parfumo. So, maybe in English we could also use 'scent emission' or 'the emission of the fragrance'.

I'm still not understanding why people can't just be expected to learn what sillage means in the context of perfume discussions, in the same way that one would need to learn new terms for any new hobby or specialized area of interest.
Confused Maybe a glossary of terms should be started? I think one or more of the other perfume sites has one.
11 years ago
Dulcemio:
[i]I'm still not understanding why people can't just be expected to learn what sillage means in the context of perfume discussions, in the same way that one would need to learn new terms for any new hobby or specialized area of interest.
Confused Maybe a glossary of terms should be started? I think one or more of the other perfume sites has one.

Oh, it is not a big deal. I think if you write a review it is just nice to have few words at hand that you can equally use for the same thing, that's all!
chiming in again 11 years ago
emission just doesn't sound right.
makes me think of bodily fluids rather than perfume. Twisted Evil
11 years ago
If someone has made this point already, my apologies...

I hate to say this, but part of the problem differentiating between projection and sillage may stem from the ratings system as it exists on our beloved Parfumo!

For every perfume listed we have the opportunity to rate different aspects of its performance on a scale of 0-100%, this includes a category for "SILLAGE" but does not include one for "projection". It seems only natural then, if we're trying to rate a fragrance in the general terms of how it carries, that we consider silage and projection as interrelated. Given the Parfumo rating scale, we end up by default using the "SILLAGE" scale as a measure of sillage and projection. There is also another reason for considering sillage and projection as being interrelated.

When we speak of the definition of wake/sillage as meaning the waves trailing behind a boat, those waves don't travel back in a straight line. The wake/sillage is also projected outward because it is traveling through an uncompressed medium, water. The same is true of a fragrance except its wake/sillage is being projected outward through the uncompressed medium of air.

There is yet one more reason to use sillage and projection interchangeably.

Taking this one, ridiculous step further (sorry!), because boats travel through the uncompressed medium of water they also create a bow wake that is projected forward as a wave in front of the boat. Once again, air is an uncompressed medium so the same rule applies for fragrances.

Sorry to go all nerd! ConfusedEmbarassed It may seem strange but after all that science, I feel just fine using sillage and projection interchangeably in a less literal, more poetic sense since they involve such similar physical principles. Very Happy
Last edited by Greysolon on 29.01.2013, 00:26; edited 3 times in total
11 years ago
I will split hairs now ...

When the person wearing a strong perfume is sitting still = projection (scent emanating from the body)

When the person wearing a strong perfume is walking = sillage (scent leaving a trail, like a boat)

When the person wearing a strong perfume is dancing = projection AND sillage (scent emanating from the body AND leaving a twirling trail, not like a boat)
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