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Concentrations vs. Flankers

Concentrations vs. Flankers 11 years ago
I open this discussion in German and English again so both exclusive English speakers and exclusive German speakers can take part. Please contribute either in German or English and make use of Google translator if needed. Scroll down for English text.

Diese Diskussion öffne ich wieder auf deutsch und englisch, damit ausschließlich englisch bzw deutsch sprechende User teilnehmen können. Bitte die Beiträge in einer der beiden Sprachen verfassen und zum lesen erforderlichenfalls den Google Translator benutzen.

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Nach unseren Regeln nehmen wir unterschiedliche Stärken desselben Dufts nicht gesondert auf (Eau de Cologne, Eau de Toilette, Eau de Parfum, Extrait). Falls mit diesen begriffen jedoch Flanker bezeichnet werden, tun wir das doch. Diese unterscheiden sich nicht notwendig in der Konzentration, aber in der Duftzusammensetzung.

In den letzten Jahren haben wir immer mehr Flanker unter den traditionellen Bezeichnungen gefunden, die wir folglich aufgenommen haben.

Anhand der aktuellen Einreichungen zu Dahlia Noir Le Bal und zu den neuen Voile d'Extrais von Vero Profumo merke ich, wie schwer diese Unterscheidung aufgrund der uns zugänglichen Informationen zu treffen ist.

Ich frage mich, ob unsere Position noch zeitgemäß und brauchbar ist. Für und gegen eine Aufgabe dieser Unterscheidung sehe ich folgende Argumente:

Pro:

Wir können eh nicht präzise beurteilen, ob ein unter mehreren der den traditionellen Bezeichnungen angebotener Duft sich neben der Konzentration nicht auch in der Zusammensetzung unterscheidet.

Auch unterschiedlich starke Konzentrationen eines Dufts können ein unterschiedliches Dufterleben auslösen und damit je einen Parfumkommentar zur jeweiligen Version rechtfertigen.

User möchten exakt denjenigen Duft besprechen können, den sie kennen.

Kontra:

Die Aufgabe des Grundsatzes führt zu vielen redundanten Einträgen in der Datenbank.

Viele User, die mit den Unterschieden nicht vertraut sind, werden nicht wissen, wo sie ihren Kommentar posten sollen. Es wäre mit Konfusion und zahlreichen an falscher Stelle geposteten Kommentaren zu rechnen.

Düfte unterschiedlicher Stärke, die bis jetzt in einem Datensatz geführt werden, enthalten bereits viele Kommentare, die sich auf die eine oder andere Version beziehen. Wir können diese nicht aufteilen und verschieben.

Bei der Konzeption von Parfumo Research haben Don und ich eine technische Lösung dieses Problems diskutiert, die aber (noch nicht) nicht realisiert wurde:

Einführung einer technischen Hierarchie: Unterschiedliche Konzentrationen desselben Dufts, sowie Special Editions desselben Dufts werden je gesondert aufgenommen. Jedoch erlaubt die Parfumdetailseite in diesen Fällen nicht, einen Kommentar zu verfassen. Diese Seiten werden aber mit dem jeweiligen originalen Parfum verlinkt bzw. es wird eine hierarchische Darstellung auf den Markenseiten geben.

Wie ist Eure Meinung zu dieser schwierigen Frage?

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According to our rules we do not seperately add different concentrations of the same fragrance separately. (Eau de Cologne, Eau de Toilette, Eau de Parfum, Extrait). In case these denominations stand for flankers, we do add them. These flankers differ from the original version by a variation of fragrance ingredients.

During the last years we have found more and more flankers that these traditional demoninations have been used for, and thus, we added them.

Looking at the current proposals concerning Dahlia Noir Le Bal and the new Voile d'Extrais by Vero Profumo I see how difficult it is to keep up this discrimination due to the information availabe to us.

I ask myself if our rule is still up to date and usable. For a rule change, I see the following pros and cons:

Pro:

We cannot precisely judge anyway if a fragrance that is offered under several of those traditional denominations does not only contain a different concentration but also a different composition of fragrant indredients.

Also, different concentrations of the same fragrance may cause a different scent sensation and thus, justify a seperate review per each version.

Users may want to review exactly the fragrance that they now.

Con:

To give up this rule will cause many redundant entries in the database.

Many Users who are not acquainted with the differences won't know where to post their review. There'd be confusion and we would have to take into account numerous reviews posted at the wrong place.

Fragrances with different concentration that have been represented by one data set so far already contain lots of reviews that may refer to one or the other version. We cannot divide and move them.

During the concept phase of Parfumo Research Don and me discussed a technical solution of this problem that however has not been programmed (yet):

Inventing a technical hierarchy: Varying concentrations of the same fragrance and also special editions of the same fragrance will be added separately. However, in these cases the perfume details page does not allow to post a review. These pages will be linked with the original version of the fragrance rsp. there will be a hierachic display on the brand page.

What is your opinion about this difficult question?
11 years ago
I'd say as long as it isn't the same scent just in a different / altered bottle, it's ok to post different concentrations. Some might argue why this or that is allowed or isn't, but I don't see a problem with this rule.

All those different LeMale / Classique flankers in new designs are not needed in my opinion. Also an A*Men just with rubber around the bottle instead of plastic or whatever is not necessary as a seperate entry either. A scent enhanced with shimmer makes no difference too.

It would be more useful to have some sort of subcategory that shows users what limited edition bottles/desings/shimmer etc. have been available. Seperate entries for all of these make the overview sites of some brands quite confusing.

I'm just no friend of accepting everything in general.
Last edited by Franfan20 on 08.09.2013, 09:36; edited 1 time in total
11 years ago
Also ich würde die Flanker und Limited Editions schon mit auf nehmen, z. B. LeMale Couple. Gehören doch auch irgendwie mit dazu. Das ist aber nur meine persönliche Meinung.
11 years ago
My opinion is to list all available concentrations, different flacons and even the filling quantities in a subcategory of each perfume.
That won't take to much place and would stay clear.
If a user is writing a comment, there should be the selection of concentrations given, he only needs to choose wich one his comment refers to and that will be shown in the comment.
Only in the cases, where we have proof of a different pyramid, we should have an own page for that creation, like we already do.
It would be absolutely crazy to list ALL concentrations of each existing perfume with an own entry here...
11 years ago
If there was a neat technical solution to implement something along the line of Joe's suggestion, I would appreciate this additional information on a fragrance. However, as long as there isn't, I am with Fran, hoping for a more strict implementation of our already existing rule.
11 years ago
The idea with the subcatecories has been in our minds ever since we started to think about Parfumo Research. It was not implemented in our current version but I think we will eventually go into that direction. For now, we should stick to the rules we have.
11 years ago
florette:
Aussi. Possibly also a date of the fragrance being reviewed as would be the case for vintages being that the ingredients may be different due to nature, scarcity and regulations.

Hm, I think we better leave it to the reviewer to give us the information about the version in the review. Posting a review would be too complicated for the not-so regular users if you'd literally have to fill in a form before you can post your thoughts.
11 years ago
Having a "which concentration are you reviewing?" question appearing when someone writes a review (With a box to tick for either EdT, EdP etc) is a great idea.

The selected concentration could then appear automatically in brackets in the title of the review.

It's simple and would make things so much clearer because we all know that many perfumes smell differently in their various guises.
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