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The end of a love affair-Scents that have lost their magic ?

9 years ago
Cruella:
Sweetgrass:
Cruella:
Cryptic:
Change of diet, medication and hormonal fluctuations all can have an impact on skin chemistry. Hope the issue resolves itself soon so you can go back to enjoying your favorites.

Skin chemistry is an urban myth.

How so? I am asking in earnest since I can only assume it is the unique chemistry of one's skin that can turn silver black on some people while it stays bright on others. As an example.

Well if you look for skin chemistry online you won't find any reputable scientific explanation or study on it, in fact, the term doesn't even exist within the scientific community because it is a phenomenon that simply doesn't exist. There is scientifically proven old people smell, and pheromones, and also even change in skin smell because of certain diseases, but the notion that a perfume is going to change its odor profile in 0.2 seconds from being sprayed to touching the skin because of a person's individual odor is not a phenomenon supported by science or recognized by it, and further more, most perfumers don't recognize it and in fact assert that it doesn't exist.

Thanks for the clarification!
9 years ago
Cruella:
Skin chemistry is an urban myth.

Cruella:

...a person's individual odor is not a phenomenon supported by science or recognized by it



Somehow I prefer to trust to the dogs than on your pseudo-scientific reasonings
9 years ago
Cruella:
Skin chemistry doesn't exist, and it doesn't affect a perfume's composition or odor profile.



We have two complex chemical solutions, one of which is variable, and individual. How do you think the interaction between them can then be always the same?
9 years ago
I think perhaps we should agree to disagree with Cruella, Wolf.

In any event, here is a well-written, thoughtful article on the subject by a respected blogger who actually has trained in the field of perfumery:

boisdejasmin.com/2008/04/skin-chemistry.html
9 years ago
Five minutes of Googling refutes your statements, Cruella. Firstly, different races possess different numbers and different distributions of apocrine glands. Any secretion from the apocrine glands has the potential to produce an odor and therefore impact a perfume that is applied to the skin.

Further, the type of bacteria found on human skin is partially a function of genetics, and therefore variable in the extreme. Here's a link to a Medline article on the topic, since you seem to appreciate scholarly research, although you have produced none in support of your own assertions. Wink

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20840217
Last edited by Cryptic on 16.12.2013, 01:23; edited 1 time in total
9 years ago
Cruella:
Cryptic:
I think perhaps we should agree to disagree with Cruella, Wolf.

In any event, here is a well-written, thoughtful article on the subject by a respected blogger who actually has trained in the field of perfumery:

boisdejasmin.com/2008/04/skin-chemistry.html

I know she is respected but I think she is still wrong. I just googled "does skin chemistry exist", and got zero hits. Literally zero. Let's use some common sense here. We are all different, different diets, health states, etc, why doesn't Coca-Cola taste different from person to person? Why doesn't make up change color from skin to skin??

There are seven billion people on this earth, all different, brands cannot produce products that will change depending of the person. If that is the case we wouldn't be able to use anything because everything would change for better or for worse depending on our bodies.

Ultimately stability is paramount for a perfumer and any cosmetic product. They have to pass tests and be tested and tested and retest it and no government agency, perfumer or cosmetic brand is going to release a product if such product is going to radically behave differently from person to person, then how do they assure their investment?

I get that the experience of people is different and maybe what they experience in their nose as a scent changing from person to person may be real, I don't know, all I know is that the skin does not change the chemical composition of the fragrant compounds of a fragrance. It doesn't because chemically speaking, skin doesn't have that ability.

You obviously didn't even bother to read the article, which addresses several of your points.
9 years ago
The skin does not change "radically" the perfume, but subtle differences do exist, because of diet, ethnic origin, hormones.
9 years ago
Pipette:
The skin does not change "radically" the perfume, but subtle differences do exist, because of diet, ethnic origin, hormones.

I think most reasonable minds would agree with that statement, Pipette.
9 years ago
I think the problem may be that your query "Is there such a thing as skin chemistry," is so crudely framed. However, I'm glad to hear that you never sweat between showers/baths. How lovely for you!
9 years ago
Cruella:
Cryptic:
Cruella:
Cryptic:
I think perhaps we should agree to disagree with Cruella, Wolf.

In any event, here is a well-written, thoughtful article on the subject by a respected blogger who actually has trained in the field of perfumery:

boisdejasmin.com/2008/04/skin-chemistry.html

I know she is respected but I think she is still wrong. I just googled "does skin chemistry exist", and got zero hits. Literally zero. Let's use some common sense here. We are all different, different diets, health states, etc, why doesn't Coca-Cola taste different from person to person? Why doesn't make up change color from skin to skin??

There are seven billion people on this earth, all different, brands cannot produce products that will change depending of the person. If that is the case we wouldn't be able to use anything because everything would change for better or for worse depending on our bodies.

Ultimately stability is paramount for a perfumer and any cosmetic product. They have to pass tests and be tested and tested and retest it and no government agency, perfumer or cosmetic brand is going to release a product if such product is going to radically behave differently from person to person, then how do they assure their investment?

I get that the experience of people is different and maybe what they experience in their nose as a scent changing from person to person may be real, I don't know, all I know is that the skin does not change the chemical composition of the fragrant compounds of a fragrance. It doesn't because chemically speaking, skin doesn't have that ability.

You obviously didn't even bother to read the article, which addresses several of your points.

I did read it.

Well, I can't understand it for you. Sorry about that.
9 years ago
Cruella, you do agree that a dog will be able to trace a criminal because a dog has enough nose receptors to pick up that individual's smell.

Well, then the different scents of different people do exist. We humans can normally not pick it up.

But, some trained perfumistas' noses possibly could?

I agree with you that the industry cannot afford to make scents (fragrances) that would drastically smell different. Then they could not even list the notes profiles.

But, on the other hand, some companies advertise, as a gimmick, that so-and-so perfume will smell "unique" "just like you" "different on every girl" ... I remember "Cachet" being such a perfume.

Why not agree that subtle skin chemistry does exist?
9 years ago
Cruella:
Cryptic:
I think the problem may be that your query "Is there such a thing as skin chemistry," is so crudely framed. However, I'm glad to hear that you never sweat between showers/baths. How lovely for you!

Well then how should it be framed?

Differences in human skin secretions.

Differences in human skin pH.

Differences in human hormonal secretions.

Differences in human skin alkalinity.

Differences in human skin acidity, etc.

If you are bound and constrained by the term, "skin chemistry," which appears to be a phrase exclusive to the cosmetics industry, then it follows that you are necessarily shutting out any scholarly, scientific research undertaken by the medical community on the subject. Now I understand your point of view, although I don't agree with it nor do I think you've supported it with anything other than your bald assertion that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong, including someone who has worked in the perfume industry and studied perfumery.
9 years ago
I accept that individual human scents exist but not the 'chemistry'. I had also wondered why, then, do scents smell differently on different people and why my perception of scents change over time. To that end I recently found and posted a news article on this forum which explains that differences in perception of scents is down to different people having different scent receptors rather than chemistry. Makes more sense than the concept of 'skin chemistry'. I can't find any research on that to prove it exists.

It is an interesting debate! And maybe changes in my scent receptors is why I no longer love "Jardins de Bagatelles".
9 years ago
So essentially what you're saying is that every human on the planet has the same skin pH, the same excretion of sebum and perspiration, and that we all share the same diet, because you've obviously never had the experience of eating a strong curry and having the smell come out of your pores the next day. Oh, and we're all sterile and aseptic with no bacteria whatsoever on our skins unless we happen to be filthy pigs who never bath.

Again, had you read the BdJ article, you'd have learned that perfumers routinely test their creations on different people before sending them to market because they (thankfully!) recognize that scent can vary from skin to skin.

At the risk of repeating myself, perfumers do recognize the existence of skin chemistry, as stated in the article written by the blogger who works in the industry. With all due respect, I'm not taking your word to the contrary until you produce a link. I regret to inform you that your unsubstantiated opinion is not at all convincing.
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