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A question to native English speakers: sillage

10 years ago
Pipette:
I will split hairs now ...

When the person wearing a strong perfume is sitting still = projection (scent emanating from the body)

When the person wearing a strong perfume is walking = sillage (scent leaving a trail, like a boat)

When the person wearing a strong perfume is dancing = projection AND sillage (scent emanating from the body AND leaving a twirling trail, not like a boat)

Your definitions are spot on, Pipette! But how do we reconcile something that exists in such a fluid state and emanates in all those ways, in all different directions at once? I can't think of a good way to untangle the whole mess and that's why I'm willing to use the less precise and -at least in English- more poetic term sillage. WinkVery Happy
10 years ago
Greysolon:
... how do we reconcile something that exists in such a fluid state and emanates in all those ways, in all different directions at once?

Greysolon, for an all encompassing term then I would be inclined to go with Apicius's original suggestion of using the word "Projection" because this is what occurs regardless of movement or not, whilst "sillage" definitely involves physical travel of the wearer.
What says you?
10 years ago
Dolby:
Greysolon:
... how do we reconcile something that exists in such a fluid state and emanates in all those ways, in all different directions at once?

Greysolon, for an all encompassing term then I would be inclined to go with Apicius's original suggestion of using the word "Projection" because this is what occurs regardless of movement or not, whilst "sillage" definitely involves physical travel of the wearer.
What says you?

Sorry Dolby, we overlapped! Confused

I agree with Apicius's suggestion. But of course I've got to explain myself in long and explicit detail Smile

I think as English speakers many of us -rightly or wrongly- have grown accustomed to using sillage as a catchall term for both projection and sillage. I freely acknowledge there is a difference in the definition between the two. But when it comes to what we experience in real life, I think many of us consider the net effect of sillage and projection as interchangeable.

Also, as I said previously, the Parfumo rating system places us in the situation of using the sillage scale to indicate our opinion of how a fragrance carries all around us in a general sense. I don't think people necessarily consider the effect of trailing or projecting when giving a rating in the sillage scale.

By the way, please, no one should take that as a criticism of Parfumo!

If the founders and administration of Parfumo were to change the sillage scale to a projection scale, I'd be just as happy because it wouldn't necessarily change how I approach rating a fragrance.

I'm just happy to have found such wonderful people on Parfumo and we can share our passion for fragrance, have civil discussions and exchange opinions. This is a wonderful place and I cherish you all! Very Happy
10 years ago
Let's go on splitting hairs! Laughing

If sillage is the wake or the trail of fragrance behind a wearer one would never be able to test it on one's own. How can we do this since we have our noses in our faces?

So, to test the sillage of a perfume you would always have to find a volunteer who would go catwalking for you! Wink
10 years ago
And, one would hope for many admirers, commenting on that fragrant trail.. Wink
10 years ago
Apicius:
Let's go on splitting hairs! Laughing

If sillage is the wake or the trail of fragrance behind a wearer one would never be able to test it on one's own. How can we do this since we have our noses in our faces?

So, to test the sillage of a perfume you would always have to find a volunteer who would go catwalking for you! Wink

Apicius, you are the King Solomon of the perfume world! Although, as Solomon, please don't suggest we use a sword to split our hairs! Shocked
10 years ago
Greysolon, sillage, projection, emanation, radiation etc etc etc ... You name it, are all technicalities.
Of course, they all carry individual nuances or else there wouldn't be a need for separate words in the first place, but you're right in saying that when experienced in vivo it's very much a case of "same difference".

Apicius, there is a way of smelling your own sillage.
It's called The Surprise Effect.
What you do is walk nonchalantly (you can whistle a bit at the same time to add a little je ne sais quoi to it), and then very suddenly, in the blink of an eye, you do a swift u-turn, quickly trace back your steps and shout "Gotcha!"
See?
Easy!
10 years ago
Dolby:
Greysolon, sillage, projection, emanation, radiation etc etc etc ... You name it, are all technicalities.
Of course, they all carry individual nuances or else there wouldn't be a need for separate words in the first place, but you're right in saying that when experienced in vivo it's very much a case of "same difference".

Apicius, there is a way of smelling your own sillage.
It's called The Surprise Effect.
What you do is walk nonchalantly (you can whistle a bit at the same time to add a little je ne sais quoi to it), and then very suddenly, in the blink of an eye, you do a swift u-turn, quickly trace back your steps and shout "Gotcha!"
See?
Easy!

Im gonns try this first thing in the morning, sounds like fun.
10 years ago
Dlane1953:
Me, too. This might be my only way of truly understanding sillage; my husband has lost his sense of smell over the years so he's not a reliable guide. Either I use this trick or I'll have to resort to sidling up to the produce guy at the grocery store and asking his opinion of my sillage. Wink And who knows what HE thinks "sillage" means? Laughing


Bah wha hahahaha!
8 years ago
I know you all are probably all done with this thread and decisions were made, so I'm only adding my two cents because I can. Wink

After reading through this thread and finding out that sillage really means wake, I think there are definitely better English words to describe this, and projection would be one of them.

It took me a while to figure out why you all are using 'sillage' when other sites use 'projection'. When I first saw it here I did look it up in the English dictionary but couldn't find it, but I could find 'silage' and it means to preserve in a silo.
8 years ago
Just to have a bit of fun, surely the person walking forwards is projecting their fragrance and the person who walks into the space left behind is experiencing silage (the wake) Me and my shadow
8 years ago
Omni:
Just to have a bit of fun, surely the person walking forwards is projecting their fragrance and the person who walks into the space left behind is experiencing silage (the wake) Me and my shadow


Exactly. "Project" means outward, forward. "Sillage" means a trail following a boat (or person).
8 years ago
OFF TOPIC -

It always amazes me how some perfumes smell different in their projection or sillage, than close up on the skin itself.

I prefer those when the scent is identical on both the projection and the skin.
8 years ago
Yea, I hate that too.
Re: A question to native English speakers: sillage 8 years ago
Apicius:
So, native speakers, can we use the word projection instead of sillage? Would this be an acceptable alternative?

To add my two pence and ignoring the fact that I am not a native speaker either, I would like to point out that neither projection nor sillage are accurate terms.

In perfume lingua a measure of the distance over which the fragrance is noticeable soon after application is usually called diffusion. Whereas volume is the effectiveness over distance, some time after application (as opposed to tenacity, which is perceived near the source). Twisted Evil
8 years ago
....
Last edited by Epimedes on 30.06.2014, 01:43; edited 1 time in total
8 years ago
This is funny You say tomaaato and I say tomayto. Lets call the whole thing off
Re: A question to native English speakers: sillage 8 years ago
MiaVonTrost:
Apicius:
So, native speakers, can we use the word projection instead of sillage? Would this be an acceptable alternative?

To add my two pence and ignoring the fact that I am not a native speaker either, I would like to point out that neither projection nor sillage are accurate terms.

In perfume lingua a measure of the distance over which the fragrance is noticeable soon after application is usually called diffusion. Whereas volume is the effectiveness over distance, some time after application (as opposed to tenacity, which is perceived near the source). Twisted Evil

Diffusion and volume are in line with the concept my friend and I came up with ("saturation") one day after she told me that she'd visited my desk about 15 minutes after I'd left the area and she could smell my beautiful perfume in the air. (Now that is some crazy sillage, right?) Laughing

In this context, good saturation would be used to describe a fragrance that diffuses well (ie, permeates a considerable amount of air surrounding the wearer) and maintains presence over time by virture of its volume in that air.

Somehow, though, "excellent diffusion, volume or saturation" just doesn't sound as French as "excellent sillage," does it? Very Happy
Re: A question to native English speakers: sillage 8 years ago
Dulcemio:
.. just doesn't sound as French as "excellent sillage," does it? Very Happy

Agreed. Very Happy OT: In German a mobile phone is a 'Handy' - sounds very English, doesn't it? Wink
8 years ago
Just don't spell it with only one L

Silage = fermented cow fodder of grasses which absolutely reeks to high heaven. (Sort of correct anyhow)

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silage
8 years ago
Tinctureall, I will agree Shocked
8 years ago
Back again to the trail to leave behind, sillage -

fragrance.about.com/od/Fragrance-Basics/fl/Wha t-is-perfume-sillage.htm

Elena Vosnaki explains it well, among other topics and things.
The French pronounce it see-yarge... 8 years ago
See-yarge...
Laughing
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